More Middle East

Jerry:

"...Absolutely right, a hodge-podge. Please correct me if I'm wrong (I could well be because of the hodge-podge) -- Itzik and I agree on one thing, a Zionist state and a democratic state (remember democracy is idealized and goes beyond one person one vote and includes the principal of denying the majority the opportunity of exercising tyranny over the minority - but it certainly cannot be one in which anyone can proclaim racism without the hand of the law dealing justly with that individual --kind of like the sorts of laws we have here in Canada, laws we fought for for decades, with Jews prominent in that battle- thus making it embarrassing for any political party to avoid censuring proponents of racism among its ranks) cannot co-exist, like an oxymoron...."

Itzik:

"...Jerry and I may or may not be in agreement on one thing--I tend to think we disagree--depending on what the meaning of Zionism is, and what we each think about the consequences of that meaning.

If Zionism, taking it out of the attic and giving it a more modern airing, means Israel as a Jewish state roughly in the ways Italy is an Italian state, France is a French state, Germany is a German state, Quebec is a French province, Basmania is a Basman state, and so on, with certain ethnic and Basman based prerogatives, typical of most of these states, then I see no necessary contradiction between Zionism and democracy, though there are paradoxes, complications and hard questions.

On this notion of Zionism, there need be no minority tyranny, and there can be the well known elements constitutive of liberal democracy such as rule of law, private property, civil rights and liberties, free enterprise and markets, due process and equal protection under law and separation of church and state.

If Zionism means something more than what I have outlined, then there may well be a necessary contradiction.

So that’s one thing. What do you say about this Jerry, anyone else?

And what about the rest of my brief critique of Levy’s piece including my explicit denial of its “bravery”?.."